Journey into Quantum Possibility

MMS: A Hypothesis for the Age of Chemicalization

Jim Humble at his MMS Workshop

Jim Humble gives fundamentals at his MMS Workshop

In the discussion thread following my article that calls for a new understanding of chlorine dioxide, I referred to a VAST multitude of substances that, before the Age of Chemicalization, would be dealt with by the body’s own chemical production capabilities.

To that comment I was asked to describe those substances and how do I know they accumulate in the body, and that they are broken down by MMS (chlorine dioxide).

I didn’t put too much significance to it when my first attempts to reply yielded nothing. Life, a birthday, and the holiday season provided their own distractions, but there was something else that made it difficult for me to provide a timely and cogent answer.

I suggested “a vast multitude” of substances that would have been dealt with by the body’s own chemical production capabilities prior to the Age of Chemicalization. However, I now realize that I can’t really speak to what happened before we became enraptured with chemistry. Yet, this profound level of dependency and ubiquitous use has in fact, become The Problem.

The introduction to The Body Electric: Electromagnetism and the Foundation of Life (1985, William Morrow and Company), written by Robert O. Becker, M.D., and Gary Selden, describes the human art that was the practice of medicine prior to the success of penicillin on lobar (pneumococcal) pneumonia after World War II, which by that time killed 100,000 Americans each year, and the soulless science that emerged in its aftermath.

Medical techniques have come to be tested as much against current concepts in biochemistry as against their empirical results. Techniques that don’t fit such chemical concepts—even if they seem to work—have been abandoned as pseudoscientific or downright fraudulent. The Body Electric

Sound familiar? That certainly describes the situation with MMS, which would have represented a perfect benign chemical reply for lobar pneumonia as it has for a myriad of other conditions. However, instead of looking at the consistent stream of positive results that the public has reported, the “health care” agencies have put MMS on their Do Not Fly list, and have been endeavoring to dissuade the public from using it with unsubstantiated and false information.

The philosophical result of chemical medicine’s success has been the belief in the Technological Fix. Drugs became the best or only valid treatments for all ailments. Prevention, nutrition, exercise, lifestyle, the patient’s physical and mental uniqueness, environmental pollutants—all were glossed over. The Body Electric

The attempt to gloss over or discredit MMS is certainly being made, but we live in a different day and time. Humanity is calling for effective ways to treat chronic and degenerative diseases, seeing that current methods aren’t getting the job done, with more understanding as to why they can’t and won’t.

So what are some of the substances of this current age? While a list could be long indeed, I’ll offer some examples.

  • Thimerosal – an inorganic mercury compound used as a preservative in vaccines, that metabolizes into ethylmercury and thiosalicylate, and is known to be toxic. In spite of ample reliable evidence that it is harmful (rapid rise in autism, ADD), the FDA and CDC have been disinclined take any active steps to eliminate its use.
  • rBGH/rBST – recombinant, genetically engineered bovine growth hormone developed by Monsanto and now marketed by Elanco, a division of Eli Lilly under Posilac. Approved by the FDA in 1993 and protected to this very day in spite of health problems in treated cows. Such consequences include a 50 percent increase in the risk of lameness (leg and hoof problems), over a 25 percent increase in the frequency of udder infections (mastitis), and serious animal reproductive problems, i.e., infertility, cystic ovaries, fetal loss and birth defects, and life span cut in half. The upshot is that these used up animals are then sold to fast food chains and become happy meals!
  • Aspartame – an artificial sweetener (NeutraSweet®) that has been associated with brain tumors. 200 times sweeter than sucrose, it was approved by the FDA in 1974. There is a long list of chronic and degenerative conditions associated with this chemical. Interesting thing is that aspartame ingestion can result in “textbook” mimicking of a wide range of diseases, which doctors will be convinced the patient needs treatment for. Of course, you know what the patient is going to get; more chemicals!
  • Monosodium Glutamate, or MSG – a flavor enhancer and neurotoxin. I just learned that MSG was sprayed on fruits, nuts, seeds, grains, and vegetables in the field (see article). However, it also appears that the product, AuxiGro, was quietly taken off the market, after it turned out that bees, which had stopped pollinating the fields. After the product went off the market, the bees subsequently returned.

Here’s some more good information on MSG.

  • Hormones in food production — Synthetic estrogens started being used to increase the size of cattle and chickens in the early 1950s. Besides rBGH/rBST, growth hormones used to make chicken, turkeys, and other livestock grow faster eventually make it into humans.
  • Transgenic (genetically modified) products – Developed under the arrogant and deluded assumption that a seed that produces its own pesticide would be both patentable and “eco-friendly,” Monsanto has taken the term “snake oil” to another level. Considered an example of biotechnology, Monsanto has admitted (after years of denial) that superbugs have evolved that will eat the crops, and said crops have been found to be contaminating waterways. Part of the delusion is thinking that traces of these chemicals won’t make it into human beings.
  • Synthetic Vitamin supplements – Most people don’t appreciate that the vast majority of vitamin supplements are little more than chemical-based simulations, with little bioavailability. Some, like synthetic vitamin E, actually do harm, extracting available vitamins and minerals from the bones.
  • Chlorine and Fluoride – Much has been written about the consequences of chlorination and fluoridation, but I don’t think it has been explored with any real conviction, since life appears to be progressing in spite of the practice. However, the progress of health is another matter. What we don’t know, is just how much better our health might be if fetal development didn’t occur in a chlorinated amniotic soup, and exposure didn’t continue day in and day out.
  • Heavy Metals – If not metabolized by the body, heavy metals – such as aluminum, mercury, lead, asbestos – are stored in the soft tissues. They can enter the human body through food, water, air, or absorption through the skin when they come in contact with humans in agriculture and in manufacturing, pharmaceutical, industrial, commercial, or residential settings. Yet, while they are easy to get in, there are few recognized ways to safely and effectively get them out. MMS, via chlorine dioxide, is one.
  • Pesticides – According to a Huffington Post article, 1.2 billion pounds used on fruits and vegetables are contaminating the food chain, but only .01% are actually reaching bugs! Turns out that celery, peaches, strawberries, apples, and blueberries head the list.

The list could continue on, but the point has been made.

Even the genetic technology that now commands such breathless admiration is based on principles unchallenged for decades and unconnected to a broader concept of life. Medical research, which has limited itself almost exclusively to drug therapy, might as well been wearing blinders for the past thirty years. The Body Electric (AA~ and that was written 25 years ago!)

As you can see, the proliferation of chemical use in our generation is profound and pervasive, so much so that we have stopped noticing it, or considering the implications.

Since modern science has yet to acknowledge the likelihood that regular, multifaceted exposure to trace chemicals is the true environmental cause behind degenerative disease, then it’s easy to see why it’s still set on using chemicals to treat it.

While MMS naysayers foment fearful prognostications about its long-term use, they appear deaf and blind to the travesty unfolding before their very eyes. People are already sick and dying from what’s happening to them NOW. The best hope that the health care industry projects is a decrease in the rate of increase of chronic disease and its expense.

 

 

MMS prepared and ready for topical use.

MMS prepared and ready for topical use.

MMS critics appear unmoved by improvements reported by MMS users, charging, incorrectly, that sellers made the claims. They decry the lack of “proof” even to people who themselves are living examples.

The critics refer to Jim Humble and others who have presented promising new methods as charlatans when the collective wool that is being pulled over the public’s eyes is enough to blot out the healing rays of the sun. Indeed, we’ve grown accustomed to fearing the sun and loving the sunscreen, which actually blocks out beneficial sun rays that would deliver much needed vitamin D.

This is also why so many people are vitamin D deficient even with synthetic vitamin D being widely available.

Now, I suspect that inundation by these chemical and synthetic – i.e., non-living – products is what gives rise to degenerative conditions that turn into chronic diseases. This is how, and why the human body may reach its capacity to naturally produce the necessary chemistry, e.g., hypochlorous acid, to protect itself.

Through the passage of time, synthetic chemicals contribute to subtle and gradual dysfunction in the human body at various stages of life. We then rationalize that the dysfunction – such as baldness, infertility, impotence, chronic fatigue, asthma, diabetes, migraine headaches, heart burn, eczema and psoriasis, dementia, autism, and many more –is a result of such things as genetics (disproved by Bruce Lipton, PhD, The Biology of Belief), and aging.  Yet, all these conditions, which contribute to, and are results of our chemical dependency, draw attention away from the true causes. And since we are conditioned to not look at causes, it opens the door for health care practitioners, who are trained only to treat symptoms, to make chemical medications and surgery the preferred treatment methods.

Mechanistic chemistry isn’t adequate to understand the enigmas of life, and it now stands as a barrier to studying them. The Body Electric

I believe that chlorine dioxide does indeed inactivate low-level inorganic material via oxidation. These materials bind up oxygen, making the environment acidic. Chlorine dioxide delivers oxygen and reduces chemical levels, in contrast to chlorine, which adds new chemistry.

Instead of clamoring for proof, consider this a hypothesis.

162 responses

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  5. Gilgamesh

    Hi Phaelosopher.

    You wrote about somewhere 6 subtle energy chambers, and one exist in Arizona. I just wondered , if Robert E Cox is behind this chamber technology? As he wrote about in his book; The Pillar of Celestial Fire, That in ancient times they had this technology and they had subtle energy chambers. He also wrote books on Alchemy, and he meditated in the cave for 9 years. But you wrote, you will be writing more about these chambers, and if you want to interview this author I think he is available, and I think he lives in Arizona, and practicing Alchemy, and write spiritual kind of books.

    December 22, 2010 at 11:46 pm

    • Hi Gil,

      The Life Vessel was developed by Barry McNew, and built by Rostum Roy. I interviewed the director of the Arizona center a couple weeks ago, and will hopefully meet and speak with McNew as well.

      December 26, 2010 at 1:28 pm

  6. Gilgamesh

    Adam.
    Not all doctors are the same.
    A lot of doctors not only drug pushers, but drug addicts, or drunks.

    December 22, 2010 at 2:54 pm

    • sarah

      Gilgamesh and Adam 2,

      It’s true that some doctors are drug addicts, drunks. . . same as in most professions. Also many, many doctors are highly ethical people who truly want to be involved in the healing process with their patients. Much of the problem in dealing with the medical profession is that today’s doctors are trained to treat symptoms, not causes, and to treat these symptoms with chemicals that have lots of (very bad) side effects. This is what they are taught. This is what they believe in. And so, with the best intentions possible, too many doctors continue to increase illness and dis-ease. The training is so deep that it is very difficult for most medical professionals to even contemplate treatments that are outside of their medical school box.

      So many people have suffered because of this. This is why people now look elsewhere for healing. Adam 2, when you say “Just ask your doctor,” you are making that suggestion to people who HAVE asked their doctors, and the answers we’ve received in the past have not contributed to our healing, but rather increased our dis-ease. That is why we are on sites like this one, looking for the answers that we were unable to get in our doctors’ offices.

      December 22, 2010 at 3:05 pm

      • Sarah, I think I can see where you are coming from. It’s true that modern medicine doesn’t have all the answers. Sometimes, people are ill, and the best doctors in the world can’t cure them. That is bound to lead to frustration.

        That also makes people vulnerable. And what you need to understand is that pushers of quack medicine (not just MMS: this goes far wider) take advantage of that vulnerability. They say “look, conventional doctors can’t help you, but we’re different, and we can help you”. Many people are desperate, and will try anything.

        But the truth is that the quacks can’t help people. If they could, then conventional doctors would be very keen to start using the quack remedies themselves. This has actually happened in the past, as alternative remedies have sometimes been proven effective. A good example of this is the herbal remedy St John’s Wort, which has proven in double blind placebo controlled trials to be an effective treatment for depression, and now there are plenty of conventional doctors who’ll be happy to prescribe it.

        But most of the time, quack remedies are just a dangerous scam. It’s far better to put your faith into treatments that have been proven to be useful in clinical trials, rather than treatments which are sold on the basis of a false promise.

        December 23, 2010 at 1:27 am

      • Simunye

        Sarah, most of us who share our experiences herw also said several times that we had our desease for years and that the doctors were not able to help us and cure us. Medication was sometimes improving our condition but never cured us. It cost a lot of money to keep seing the doctor for new perscriptions and to buy the medication, specially if you have no medical-aid.
        If after years of suffering and than 2 days of taking MMS the same desease is gone without trace, than that medicine that is responcible for the cure I call a miracle, reagrdless if Adam2 agrees with me or not. I’m sure all others who had simular experiences had dseen the doctor first too. So what is Adams problem anywhere?
        Maybe he does not bother reading wall we write, but just writing? ;)

        December 23, 2010 at 1:39 am

      • sarah

        Adam 2, when I was a little girl, chiropractic was considered quackery. Now it’s mainstream. So much of medicine was considered quackery at first, including the idea of WASHING YOUR HANDS between surgeries! I suffered from clinical depression for over 30 years. I healed myself in 2 weeks using energy medicine techniques I learned from a book. Clinical trials? Don’t know, don’t care. What I do know is that I no longer take medicine, no longer have to regularly spend the money to be evaluated by a psychiatrist so I can keep taking the medication, no longer have to risk the variety of side effects (that have been proven in clinical trials!).

        Also I’ve suffered from severe gut troubles since I was little. The doctors couldn’t find any problems. Lots of expensive tests, lots of diet changes…. I’ve started taking MMS and I say with cautious optimism that my gut seems to be healing. It isn’t a sudden, dramatic change, but since starting the protocol I do notice some positive changes.

        I no longer choose to allow doctors – or anyone else for that matter – do all of my thinking for me about my own health and wellbeing. And since I made that decision, I have much better health and wellbeing to think about. I don’t discount what modern medicine has to offer. I simply recognize that there are other, sometimes better, options out there. Being open to those other options has made a huge difference in my everyday life.

        December 23, 2010 at 8:02 am

      • Actually, Sarah, chiropractic is still very much considered quackery. Most people recognise that it can be a useful treatment for some back problems, but it claims to be able to treat all manner of other diseases on the basis of absolutely no evidence, and in that sense, it is quackery.

        December 29, 2010 at 8:17 am

  7. Lee

    Dear Adam
    I read all your comments. As a mms user, I don’t usually defend MMS from those who don’t believe MMS because once they find it really works, they are likely to be more enthusiastic to spread the words to others.
    The reason why MMS users from all over the world are spreading words is that they simply can not stop themselves to help others because MMS is really amazing. We just want to spread the happiness we have exprienced. Therefore, I understand so many MMS users are spending their time to advocate MMS. That is not for MONEY or FAME. That is just for their own will to help people. However, what I really don’t understand is those who are spending their time and energy to attack MMS or Jim with no experience and actual experiment with MMS. Why are they wasting their time to depreciate MMS? I think you are very healthy now so you don’t want to try MMS for yourself now. However, you MIGHT NEED it sometime. I understand it is hard to believe MMS before you have your own experience for yourself or family with MMS. People usually do. It is your freedom to consider MMS as a scam or delusion. However, please please don’t spend too much energy for it. You might regret it later cause it is very sad to take chances away from those who are in need of MMS right now. Especially for very ill people who are very poor. Do you know why people are so crazy about MMS? It is actually very cheap and it really works. I hope you will not be too guilty when you get actually benefited when you need it in the future. You will find the truth eventually. ~ from another world

    December 21, 2010 at 12:05 pm

    • “However, what I really don’t understand is those who are spending their time and energy to attack MMS ”

      Let me explain then. It’s quite simple really.

      MMS is a scam. Now, I have no way of knowing whether you genuinely believe that MMS is some kind of miracle cure or whether you are one of the folk who make a living out of it. Neither does anyone else reading this blog. But the plain truth is that there is no evidence that MMS works and plenty of evidence that it’s harmful. And there are those who want people to take it because they make money out of it.

      So in other words, it’s a scam.

      Some people may be taken in by this scam, if they come to a website like this one that promotes MMS and don’t get to read any opposing comments. They may directly poison themselves with MMS, or they may have a genuine illness that needs proper medical treatment, and then might not seek that medical treatment until it’s too late.

      It offends my sense of justice if people are taken in by a scam and their health is harmed as a result.

      Anyway, if anyone reading this is wondering whether to try MMS, I’m not asking you to take my word for it that it’s a scam. Just ask your doctor. That’s not an unreasonable suggestion, is it? That’s all I ask of anyone thinking of taking MMS.

      December 22, 2010 at 9:52 am

      • Adam was asked a question directly, and he answered it directly. The fact that it is FALSE notwithstanding.

        Since that is the ONLY position he is going to take, as though he is taking some form of moral high ground, I’m putting him — you Adam — on notice that I will delete what I feel to be FALSE information. Since you only appear to listen to people who haven’t experienced MMS themselves, then you’re in no position to declare it a scam in a forum where the contrary is KNOWN to be true. You can write it anywhere you want elsewhere on the internet. I will not seek your site out to “debate” or “save” the unwitting.

        I will no longer allow you to sully my forum with what I KNOW to be untrue.

        Happy Holidays to you and all.

        December 22, 2010 at 10:33 am

      • Simunye

        Nobody is asking YOUR advise here Adam 2, in case you did not notice…
        You do NOT qualify to give advise about something you have no clue of, because you never used it.
        Doctors have been wrong before and are wrong again this time. Time and so many successtories will prove them wrong again… :-)

        December 22, 2010 at 11:14 am

      • All I’m saying, Phaelosopher, is that anyone who’s not sure about MMS should ask their doctor for advice.

        Surely you don’t disagree with that, do you?

        December 22, 2010 at 1:16 pm

      • That is not “all you were saying”. I’ve allowed you to say everything in your repertoire. That’s what I referred to when I mentioned being at square 1. With all the interactions we’ve had here, and the respect and leeway you’ve been given here, particularly by me, you have the audacity to say that MMS is a scam.

        That’s a non-topic here. I don’t go to prescription-focused forums and try to sell people on MMS, or tell them about how they are being scammed. People who come here want useful information, which is what they get. As long as what you have to say is useful, you are welcome here. If it is not, then you won’t be either.

        The public should hear all sides of the subject, and so your perspective has been amply presented. But you’ve had precious little that is compelling to say, and offered nothing positive, even as alternatives that might help people. Your mission appears to be very narrow in its focus. So, one round of it is enough.

        December 22, 2010 at 2:56 pm

      • What I’m not clear about, Phaelosopher, is where you stand on the question of whether people should ask their doctor for advice before taking MMS?

        December 23, 2010 at 1:20 am

      • Sarah gave you a very clear description of the reality that people are faced with today, and that are part of their investigative process, when she said that they have done it (asked their doctor), and in many cases, have gone through the entire spectrum of treatments, at great expense, all to no avail, before finding and choosing to use MMS. Yet, you (1) didn’t acknowledge her response, and (2) ask me as if it hadn’t been done.

        It doesn’t really matter what I think people “should” do. They should do what they believe is best for them. They should know more about the factors that contribute to disease and its abatement than they are being taught in the education system. All they’re being taught primarily is to NOT use their intelligence, and do as they are told by someone else before listening to their own inner wisdom. That’s all you’re suggesting here. I’m not against people going to their doctor. If the individual understands the factors that I outlined, he or she will choose doctors that practice methods that will truly help them. The MMS phenomenon is growing because at present, general medical practices aren’t getting the job done, and people are less willing to risk their health, livelihoods, and life on costly medical practices that have proven themselves to be ineffective.

        December 23, 2010 at 6:31 am

      • Oh, and another question for you: I’m curious about why you don’t go to science-based medicine sites and talk about MMS. Presumably you are keen for MMS to be widely known, or you wouldn’t have created this website in the first place.

        Why not try to get your message across more widely?

        December 23, 2010 at 1:57 am

      • I’m not an evangelist for MMS. I am not an evangelist for anything. A Buddhist adage goes, “When the student is ready, the teacher will appear.” I am not the teacher. We are each in the classroom of Life. The true teacher is one’s Inner Wisdom. When the individual is ready to open to a more satisfying, healthier classroom experience (Life), the teacher (Inner Wisdom) will lead the way, and they may find this place in their journey. You are here because Life brought you. It’s part of your present classroom. Try as you might to ignore it, YOU are changed by these dialogues. I didn’t change you, nor do I care to. You will change yourself if you listen to Inner Wisdom, which cares not about peer reviewed, journal published confirmations. You will see and experience amazing changes when you take the shackles off your mind and connect with your heart. I don’t have to know you to personally to recognize mental constipation in need of release. You are not alone.

        I have no desire to proselytize. I’m sharing what I know to be true now. When I learn and understand deeper truths, I’ll share them too. MMS is not central to such unfoldings. There is GREAT therapeutic value in walking barefoot in grass, or laying still on a boulder, activities that would be dismissed by some (but not all) of your “peers.” That is why one must open to, and listen to their Inner Voice. Automatically running to a doctor and not understanding or trusting what’s going on inside, may shift the look or location of the problem, but it won’t go away. People have been conditioned to accept living with their problems rather than transforming and transcending them.

        When they’re ready for a desirable change, they’ll find whatever truth they need to support them, including in places like this.

        December 23, 2010 at 6:55 am

      • Lee

        Thank you for your reply. Adam

        I don’t say you should neglect doctors. I respect them. My English is not so good but I will try to explain my experience as best as I can. I don’t have serious desease but when I had serious food poison and sore throat, it was gone right away after taking MMS. Usally we have to use 15 drops of MMS + Citric Acid(50%) for food poison. If you are asking evidence, myself is evidence. There is no absolute evidence than myself, right? Is was really amazing experience. And this is my father’s case. He went to doctor when he had serious skin rash over his body. His doctor subscribed Steroid so he used the steroid for 1 year without any improvement. That time, my friend told me about mms and after 3 times of taking mms, the rash was all gone and never came back for 1 year. It was a miracle for all our family. Since that time, I tried to spread mms to my country. Now, in my country, there are hundreds of mms users who they prove it themselves from their illness; heart disease, diabetes, athletes food, sun allergy, skin disorder, atopic dermatitis, heart cancer, prostatitis, eczema, respiration problem, insomnia, Alzheimer’s disease, arthritis, high blood pressure, swine flu, cold…Most of them had seek their doctors at first.
        They are now all spreading MMS to their friends. It is amazing to see how fast MMS are spreading. They order mms from another country or make it themselves. Of course, I am not selling mms. I am just happy when I see someone get well with mms. That is all!!!

        December 23, 2010 at 8:06 am

  8. Gilgamesh

    Thank you, Sarah, and Simunye.

    December 8, 2010 at 10:10 am

  9. Gilgamesh

    Hi Rhedda
    I think these guy’s brains is limited, and locked up in some kind of peer reviewed scientific box.
    There is that Morgan guy, he thinks he is a doctor.
    But if you would ask him, how many horse power is in an average, healthy Ox, he would tell you, that he have to check it out in the peer reviewed scientific journal, and if it is not in the scientific journal, there is no horse power in oxen.
    I wonder, if these guys would even know, that bacon comes not from turkeys. If it is not in the peer reviewed scientific journal, maybe they know not much.

    December 7, 2010 at 2:16 pm

    • Simunye

      Gilgamesh
      How many drugs were in ‘peer reviewed scientific journal’ and approved by FDA, but than been taken from the market again, because the ‘peer reviewed scientific journal’ published results which turned out to be wrong and the drugs turned out to have serious side-effect. So far for how trustworthy ‘peer reviewed scientific journals’ are!
      Now I wonder how many drugs are out there which should be recalled, but as long as nobody makes a big fuss about their serious side-effects, who cares!

      I thought we are discussing MMS here, and not our nick-names. Many people do not use their names on forums and blogs. For good reasons I found out, because if some people would have known before, that there are those who use the info about other peoples real name to get them in to trouble if they can, more people would not have used their real name on facebook too.
      So I do not understand why MINE seems to be an issue bothering somebody, just like it bothers his son why ‘phaelosopher’ can’t spell ‘his name’ and philosopher correct, so I read on other web-sides… amongst other amusing things… ;)

      December 7, 2010 at 4:56 pm

      • Gilgamesh

        Simunye.
        You are right about talking about MMS, but all these invaders with with their peer reviewed scientific journal talk is a distraction.
        A question that I wanted to ask, is if black coffee would activate the MMS, if I would just put 2 or 3 drops in my coffee.
        A few months ago here, it was on the news, that coffee had nicotine in it, but after they said they tested the coffee, and found no nicotine, or maybe they meant not significant amount of nicotine.
        I m saying this this way,because a person, who works for the FDA told me, that they do put nicotine on the beans as they roasting them, to kill the molds, and bacteria.
        However, the molds in the beans that give the coffee the flavor and the aroma. and I would think that every coffee tree would have a different flavor and aroma in the beans.
        The coffee companies want all their coffee to taste the same all the time,
        So I figure that they kill all the natural tastes, and molds in the beans, maybe they wash it with nicotinized water, and wash it again and they add during roasting their own manufactured molds, and flavor, so it will tastes the same all the time. How else would the coffee be the same every morning? So I think the person from the FDA maybe was right.
        But my concern here is, if I could activate the MMS with black coffee, I never tried it, but maybe somebody tried it already?

        December 7, 2010 at 6:09 pm

      • Simunye

        Gilgamesh
        Hi..hi…I get the message.
        Now I ‘m not an expert, but MMS taken with coffee is as far as I know a waste of time. Why spoil the MMS? ;)
        All that ‘peer reviewed blablabla is not to distract us, but to demotivate us to write again. Won’t work with me.
        Ignoring those whose opinion I’m not interested in, is the best thing I can do. They need to get rid of their poison words and they need to know if they succeeded to annoy you. Not answering keeps them wondering and us smiling! :-) :-) :-)

        December 8, 2010 at 12:50 am

      • Sarah

        Hi Gilgamesh,

        I believe I read that caffeine neutralizes MMS; coffee and vitamin C are the two things I remember reading that you should NOT take with it.

        December 8, 2010 at 8:46 am

  10. Paul Morgan

    My reply to Monika Scholze (aka Simunye) got move accidently by me to a response to a different comment above, so apologies for any confusion caused.

    December 6, 2010 at 1:19 pm

  11. WaterEng

    I work in the water industry and the chemicals we use to clarify and render water safe to drink are dangerous which is why we go to great lengths to manage the residual levels in water fed into supply. The use of a chemical in water treatment is certainly no assurance of its safety as many of the MMS apologists seem to think. Try googling “Camelford poisoning” if you want evidence of what happens when elevated levels of these chemicals enter your supply.

    December 6, 2010 at 12:41 pm

    • Dear Richard,

      People are experiencing the effects of elevated chemicals in the water supply every day, most of it is written off as “unexplained” increases in chronic diseases.

      You have every reason to exercise great caution, not only in the use of chemicals, but in their choice. You say that you are rendering water safe to drink. However, the chemicals — if they include chlorine — are toxic. While in London this past May I interviewed two people who have “consumed” chlorinated city water all of their lives. A woman in Winchester in her mid-70’s, widowed after prostate cancer took her husband, walked like a robot because she was in constant pain from osteoporosis, with calcium deposits in her joints. Of course, the chemical medications that her doctors had prescribed over the years as part of Standard Medical Treatment, only made her bad condition worse. I met a young man of 26 who had been on dialysis for 3 years, after learning that his kidneys were only functioning at 30%. The doctors claimed kidney failure, and promised to get him on a list for replacement. No one considered that it was simply kidney clogging, and that a cleanse would made things good as new.

      You’re not personally responsible for these conditions, but a lot of present-day conventional thinking that your industry treats as inviolate, is. You speak of “MMS apologists”… who is that? You speak as though the chemicals that you use are safe, and that MMS/chlorine dioxide is dangerous. Please study the chemistry of chlorine dioxide, if you are not familiar with it, and tell me how present methods of chemical use (other than chlorine dioxide) are better than a disinfection method that actually reduces chemical deposits in the internal human biosphere.

      December 6, 2010 at 1:16 pm

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    • Simunye

      Adam 1
      How do this tweets come in here if I may ask? :-)

      December 6, 2010 at 12:58 pm

      • Someone made a reference to an article on this blog, which WordPress recognizes and registers as a pingback.

        December 6, 2010 at 1:19 pm

      • Simunye

        Thanks for the info Adam!
        I’m not so familiar with all those technical stuff… ;)

        December 6, 2010 at 1:33 pm

  13. Simunye

    Adam
    Could you please increase the amount of the last feed-backs? Sometimes I find it hart to find those that were before the last 5. Thanks… :-)

    December 5, 2010 at 6:26 am

    • Simunye,

      I made an adjustment in the number of nested comments… let me know if that helps.

      Thank you!

      December 6, 2010 at 6:52 am

      • Simunye

        Thanks Adam, but I was talking about the feed-backs on your right hand-side-panel, that show the last 5 entry’s. Those can be increased up to 15 as far as I know.
        Like this time, the last 5 entries visible where all from Adam2, which I’m not interested in reading because he is either repeating his opinions, or he is asking for answers I either can’t answer, or won’t answer again. ;)

        December 6, 2010 at 8:07 am

      • I see what you mean.

        Although 15 is the max, I changed it to 12.

        December 6, 2010 at 8:11 am

      • Simunye

        Thanks Adam, now that is better. keep up the good work. God bless… :-)

        December 6, 2010 at 8:59 am

      • The change in the number of recent posts is a great improvement, but I think the number of nested comments has gone a bit far: you’ve recently replied to a post of mine below and I’m afraid I find it very hard to read, as it’s in such a thin column.

        Maybe stick with the 12 most recent comments and lose a level or two of nested comments?

        December 6, 2010 at 10:05 am

      • I put the nested comments back to where they were.

        December 6, 2010 at 10:33 am

      • Simunye

        Good idea Adam, since the writing became to narrow.
        It was a misunderstanding to begin with… :-)

        December 6, 2010 at 10:46 am

  14. Habib

    “Adams:And how do you think we found out that Vioxx was harmful and it got taken off the market? That’s because of proper scientific studies, published in peer reviewed journals.

    If it weren’t for scientific studies, no-one would ever have looked to see if Vioxx was causing rare by serious adverse events”

    Habib:Hi the idea that proper scientific studies, published in peer reviewed journals are needed for a medicines potency is not sensible. Let us understand that it takes millions of dollars to get a drug into the market and it is patented for 5 years. The FDA first approves these drugs and then some couple of years later people begin to realise the adverse effects of those drugs and then it takes another couple of years to appear in your “scientific journal” which by the way is the time when the patent expiry date is close. The drug companies happily accept this and manufacture the same drug under a different brand name or change a few things in the old drug apply for a new patent and continue the cycle.

    December 5, 2010 at 3:30 am

    • So how would you monitor for rare drug side effects then, if not through scientific studies?

      BTW, can you name an example of a drug that was withdrawn from the market and then introduced under a different brand name? I’ve never heard of this happening, and I rather suspect you’re just making it up.

      December 6, 2010 at 7:01 am

  15. Adams Apple

    Wow! What a river of nonsense! How can this flood of idiots deride Adam as a pharma shill while acting as shills themselves for Jim Humble’s super-bleach? MMS clearly is nonsense of the first order. Even if bleach had some useful effects inside the body (it does not, all the chemistry and biochemistry we know iforms us that it does not and cannot), how could it be so perfectly selective at attacking almost everything bad while doing no harm? If it was that brilliant our bodies would have evolved to generate it themselves.

    MMS boosters, please stop with your lies! MMS never cured anything, not one thing. If you think it did, get it documented instead of writing fairy stories about how a friend-of-a-friend had their Crohn’s disease cured. That is simply untrue, and you know it.

    Pathetic shills for a snake-oil fraudster. Shame on you.

    December 5, 2010 at 2:19 am

    • DEA was right!
      he said that that pharmawhore adam shill would be back under a new name, and he was right!

      ha,ha,
      i hope you get cancer adams apple!!
      you whore sellout!

      in fact i KNOW you will get some terminal illness because you lie and poison others like the weak cowards you arewith your dangerous disinfo.
      its too bad you cannot be prosecuted with your pharmamastes under the RICO act and put where the sun dont shine.
      go crawl back under your rock.
      the world doesnt need your type.

      December 5, 2010 at 8:04 pm

      • Sarah

        WOW! Are you kidding me? Isn’t the whole debate about MMS a debate concerning HEALTH and WHOLENESS? DEA, whether or not you agree with someone’s fervently held position, the vitriol you are spewing has got to be extremely unhealthy – for yourself! I have been following this debate with interest and curiosity – I have yet to make a decision for myself concerning MMS – but I have to say that if I read just a couple more posts with this kind of venom I would completely lose interest in MMS. I would never want to trust my own health to a product “supported” by someone so full of hate.

        December 5, 2010 at 10:14 pm

      • Hi Sarah,

        I’ve never been inclined to “debate” because it has evolved into an exchange of ideas where belief, at least for one side, is optional. A “debater” can take a position that he or she doesn’t necessarily believe, simply to provide an “opposing” view. In such cases, everything is fair game when one’s own intelligence is not in gear, including personal attacks. Being for a viewpoint is different than being “against an opposing” one.

        I tend to look for value in all positions, pro and con, even when they disagree, not only with my position, but with my style of communication. DEA’s style is quite different from my own. And yet, if you read any number of discussion threads following my MMS articles since the FDA warning, you will find ample examples of opposing posts, ostensibly written by intelligent, educated people, that are high in arrogance and negative judgment, and low in any probative value, except that by allowing them to be presented for ALL to see, the reader could make up his or her own mind, not as to who is “right,” but what is best for the reader.

        Yet, there are boundaries that can be crossed. As the creator of this space, I do have the ability to block, ban, or erase any post that crosses them. On the other hand, I am not here to be an emotional or grammatical baby sitter. We must not only learn how to discern truth for ourselves; we must also learn how to express it in the best way we know how. To his credit, from all that I have have observed, experienced, and now understand about MMS, DEA has figured out the truth and was expressing his indignation at Adam et. al’s misinformation charade, honestly.

        If you want to know what the charade was/is, it’s that they actually care about people who are suffering. They don’t know, or care about how MMS works and why it can offer something that is benefiting the consumer. Their concern is protecting an institutionalized method that is SLOW to acknowledge, much less adopt, any method that it’s membership hasn’t embraced, bought, and paid for, and more importantly, control. And guess what…? it’s not MMS that they are trying to control, it’s the public’s MIND. This “debate” could be about anything that lends credence to the idea that doctors and the medical/scientific community aren’t infallible holders of all knowledge, and that an individual can understand the cause of his or her problems and can HEAL, not being DEPENDENT upon an outside authority.

        This is not to dismiss doctors or medical science altogether, but to make them accountable for the inefficacy of their current methods by recognizing the damage that they are now doing, and choosing different ones.

        Best wishes,

        Adam…

        December 6, 2010 at 6:45 am

      • Simunye

        Well said Adam! :-)

        December 6, 2010 at 8:14 am

      • Sarah

        Thanks for your thoughtful response, Adam. I actually do understand all that, I was just knocked sideways by the violence of that comment. That kind of anger is far more damaging to the human system than most medications! As long as DEA and others allow themselves to be so angered, they’ll really need to up their doses of MMS to detox all the damaging – 100 % natural! – chemicals they’re pouring into their own systems! :-)

        December 6, 2010 at 8:39 am

      • Sarah, I agree with you. Anger is its own worse enemy, it’s victim being the one who own it. And actually, anger isn’t something that you own… it owns you. It can come from any individual, expressing any and all points of view. Anger is transcended by and through forgiveness. This is a key aspect of consciousness, and integral to healing, which the FDA has NOT approved. :-)

        December 6, 2010 at 8:45 am

      • Simunye

        You kidding Adam! What does the FDA know about that?
        Ah, they can’t patent ‘forgiveness’ and sell it… ;)

        December 6, 2010 at 9:05 am

      • Sarah

        Nice. :-))

        December 6, 2010 at 9:30 am

      • Simunye

        Sarah
        Adam and some of the other anti-alternative-medicine-fanatics are obviously here to discourage us from sharing our experiences or just to bring our experience so far down on the page, that new people won’t see them. This can be very annoying.
        Everybody reacts different. Some users just stop writing all together about their experiences here or on other web-sides when confronted with their abusive and repeating comments.
        So please don’t judge MMS on behalf of one person.
        Whist I have no problem with other peoples opinions and believes, I do have a problem with bullys. :-)

        December 6, 2010 at 12:43 am

      • Sarah

        Hi Simunye,
        No, I don’t judge MMS, either pro or con – by one person. I would, however, definitely stop reading at a site where that kind of violence is displayed commonly. I’m interested in adult discussion, and the opportunity to learn from, and contribute to, others. I’m not interested in gratuitous verbal violence.

        By the way, I’m so happy for ypu that you’ve had such profound healing in your life.

        December 6, 2010 at 10:06 am

      • Simunye

        I solved that problem with comments that annoy me, by simply not reading comments from such people. Some of those here were also on other web-sides. One group was closed down my its creator because of the abuse users had to put up with from those anti MMS supporters. I blocked them on facebook, so I did not have to see their comments, for the reason you and Adam1 so wisely recognized, namely that reading such negative and abusive comments is not good for my spirit. I like to think as posotive as possible, because my soul appreciates it! :-)

        December 6, 2010 at 10:16 am

      • Wow, dea, you hope Adams Apple (not me, by the way) gets cancer?

        I think we can now judge just what sort of a person you are. You might want to take a good hard look at yourself and your attitude to your fellow human beings.

        December 6, 2010 at 7:04 am

      • Simunye

        Don’t throw stones when you sit in a glasshouse… ;)

        December 6, 2010 at 8:17 am

    • Simunye

      Who are you Adams Apple to call US users liars?
      We have a saying, that those who are doing it, suspect others of doing it to.
      I guess that tells us WHO is the REAL liar here! :-)

      December 6, 2010 at 1:40 am

      • Gilgamesh

        hi Simunye
        I agree with you,these trouble makers are very rude and angry, and just want to make trouble. We dont know who they are, but I think they are all one person, and just trying to create a situation here. But I think all this just proves that MMS is exactly what it is, a cure for many health problems. Why else would they be so angry about it. However not just MMS, but as I wrote before Chiropractic also help a lot of people and trans dermal magnesium oil therapy. Homeopathy.and Reiki And I read In the Caduseus
        Magazine on oage 12, 13 and 14 that a lot of people now also chose Matrotonic healing,and Matroton is the ruler of the tree of life.Around the World millions of people now throwing away the drugs, and using Chinese, and alternative medicines. MMS is not shoved down on people’s throats, it is people choose for themselves, they have to decide on it themselves.
        So, I dont understand why some people are upset, and angry, maybe something is wrong with them,

        December 6, 2010 at 8:29 am

      • Do you not see the irony in calling the anti-MMS folk rude and angry on the same page that one of the pro-MMS folk expressed a wish that other people will die of cancer?

        All the anti-MMS people, like me, want is to warn people like Sarah not to fall for the scam that is MMS. If you’d like to try to argue the benefits for MMS without resorting to name-calling, feel free.

        But since there is no evidence for the benefits of MMS, I can kind of understand why you just resort to name-calling instead.

        December 6, 2010 at 8:36 am

      • Adam… there’s no place for that no matter who says it. It was a shock when Paul, who presented himself as a doctor, did the very same thing. It’s no less of one when someone who supports MMS does it. You call yourself an “anti-MMS” person who wants to warn people not to fall for the “scam,” when you have no basis for your argument other than lack of “evidence” and peer reviewed studies. Before there were peers to review, before there were “degrees” to confer, knowledge was being gained. Nature doesn’t withhold knowledge from anyone who truly seeks it. Given your disinterest in having or expressing your own opinion, one based on personal knowledge, you are either being paid to hold your position, or very naive.

        December 6, 2010 at 8:51 am

      • The basis for my argument is not only the total lack of evidence for any benefits of MMS, it’s also the existence of evidence for the harms of MMS.

        And given that we do have peer-reviewed science these days, I don’t think it’s asking that much that we judge science by today’s standards, and not from the standards of a bygone era when things were considerably less rigorous.

        December 6, 2010 at 8:55 am

      • We’ve gone around this pole before. There is “evidence” for both; reason to see how MMS can be of benefit, and reason for caution. That applies to any and everything. You choose to give credence only to unsubstantiated negative information while being doubtful of the positive. You want your negative, non-experience-based, intellectual position to be believed on face value, but won’t respect the position of people who are not simply spouting off a belief, but are speaking from their own personal knowledge. People who could teach your “peers” a thing or two, if they were open to learning. They tend to be as myopic as you… until they get in a health crisis of their own. Then, the ones who want real beneficial results will in fact, consider MMS, and anything else that would have made before, had they been willing to listen.

        December 6, 2010 at 9:18 am

      • Simunye

        Gilgamesh
        I don’t think they all the same person, even do I it is possible that one or some of them use multiple aliases to keep the conversation going.
        I think and have prove for the fact that some of them belong to a group of people meeting on twitter, who seem to anti alternative medicine and seem to be bored.So they terrorize everybody who they think is against traditional medicine.
        personally I’m not against traditional medicine and see the doctor if need be too. But last year, when nothing helped I tried MMS and it helped me. So I share my experience, and I get very annoyed when somebody calls me a liar for it, or worse. I’m a Reiki Master and was called a quack by Rhys Morgan for it, something I do not appreciate at 60 years of age and with my experiences in life, by a 15 year old who does not have a clue what it is all about and still has a lot to learn. :-)

        December 6, 2010 at 8:52 am

      • That’s part of the naivete of youthful “debaters.” Given the notoriety he has gained as a “young victim” of Crohn’s disease, Rhyse has a double problem. He doesn’t know what he’s talking about regarding MMS. That’s one. The other is that he doesn’t know that he doesn’t know, and doesn’t think it’s important. I guess he has a triple problem. He’s not alone.

        By becoming a crusader against MMS, Rhyse has taken the focus off his real problem, that the current methods used to treat Crohn’s are ineffective… sooooooo ineffective, in fact, that they even consider it “incurable”. One of the very methods that would cure his overly chemicalized, polluted, and unbalanced condition — should he truly wanted to do that — would be MMS. The arrogance of crusading against something he hasn’t tried while still needing to get well again, is part of an insane game so pervasive that Rhyse doesn’t see it.

        I know that I don’t know it all, and don’t suggest that I have all the answers. Yet, I know what I’m talking about while being open to deeper understanding. I’m open to truth, wherever it comes from, and in whatever package. Adam and company turn their minds off to certain sources, and on to others, but in so doing, they become marionettes to a puppet master behind the scenes.

        By the way Simunye, you produced a GREAT VIDEO! :-)

        December 6, 2010 at 9:08 am

      • Simunye

        Thanks Adam, my first and only video of this kind!
        I’m not so good @ speaking English, hence I avoid commenting in person on videos.
        But it was surely not the last time! :-)

        December 6, 2010 at 9:17 am

      • Simunye

        Adam, I guess that Rhys is crusading against MMS, because ‘he is not allowed to use it’.
        The fact that he does not seem to care how many people will go on suffering if he succeeds in his endeavor to get MMS banned world-wide, proves that it has nothing to do with his concern for mankind. Nobody has died from MMS and the side-effects are by far not as bad as by many other medication..
        MMS users are also human! Why must we go on to suffer, because Rhys says so?
        Needless to say that I think he is doing it to impress his dad and to get attention! Being bored could be another reason, possibly both!:-)

        December 6, 2010 at 9:28 am

      • “You choose to give credence only to unsubstantiated negative information while being doubtful of the positive.”

        Not true at all. I give credence to the negative information because it is substantiated, and published in peer-reviewed journals.

        It’s only the positive information about MMS that is unsubstantiated.

        December 7, 2010 at 3:12 am

      • The sources of the “substantiated” negative information that you cite regarding MMS are themselves unsubstantiated. The “mmsdebunked” site that you point to is run by a person who, in his own words, says he’s not qualified to make claims, but has made it his mission to dissuade the public based on others’ opinions. He says its because a close friend purchased some MMS… not even that they experienced any harm. He became outraged because claims were made that, based on current orthodox medical thinking, were/are not possible.

        You and the thinking that you represent, are not the arbiters of what is possible, and certainly do not define what is impossible. WHEN a discovery occurs, having it peer reviewed and published doesn’t validate it. The discovery IS the confirmation of its possibility. Refusing to acknowledge it doesn’t invalidate. To say that only negative information is substantiated and only positive is unsubstantiated shows you’re so convinced that your bias is rational, that you do not see its irrationality… or that you don’t care.

        December 7, 2010 at 5:47 am

      • Well, I’ve posted links to peer-reviewed literature on the harms of chlorine dioxide. If you want to call that unsubstantiated, then I guess we’ll have to agree to differ on what we mean by “unsubstantiated”.

        Just be aware that your view of what counts as unsubstantiated is rather unusual in the world of science.

        December 7, 2010 at 6:19 am

      • Adam:

        EVERY discovery is both “unsubstantiated” and “unusual” in the general world of science (and conventional thinking) initially. It is both insanity and idiocy to declare that a new idea is impossible on the basis of not being “substantiated” by a certain group of people. In the 1970’s Dr. Bjorn Nordenstrom, who has contributed many advances to medical science and sat on the nominating committee for Nobel laureates in medicine, substantiated and demonstrated a non-destructive method of curing breast cancer by creating an electrical field between the tumor and surrounding normal tissue. Tumors shrunk and and went away.

        In one trial with a group of women who had gone through all that conventional medicine had to offer, 50% had a reduction and/or elimination of all tumors.

        Instead of submitting papers to journals who have too little space to give the subject the consideration it deserved, he wrote a book, Biologically Closed Electrical Circuits. His methods have essentially been ignored by the “scientific community,” where surgery and chemical treatments continue to predominate.

        Dr. Nordenstrom learned, on a trip to the U.S. in 1986, that the method that he developed and wrote about was written about, demonstrated, and published by another doctor, in 1877. A copy of that 1877 book can be found at the World Research Foundation (www.wrf.org) in Sedona, AZ.

        Science is not as narrow- or closed-minded as you make it appear to be. MMS will be seen for the value that it represents, as is happening one individual at a time.

        You just put yourself at the short end of a vast informational food chain by taking the position that truth begins with publishing *in a certain way by a certain group*.

        December 7, 2010 at 7:24 am

  16. Sarah

    Adam 2, I’m curious. I came late to this party so I don’t know the history, but from the several blogs and follow-up posts I’ve read here, it seems as though Adam 1 and most of the other commentors are pro-MMS because they believe it to be a valuable tool for improving health. Will you explain to me why you are so extremely against it? You seem so angry, and you continue to come back into the fray over and over again. I think I understand the pro-MMSers *motives, but what is yours?

    *As to the possible pro-MMS motive of financial gain, that seems unrealistic. MMS is extremely inexpensive.

    Just to clarify, I don’t yet have a vote. I’m trying MMS now and have had no major changes, positive or negative, but I also don’t have major health issues. I simply want improved overall health, and I believe detoxing is essential for that.

    December 4, 2010 at 9:11 pm

    • Simunye

      Welcome Sarah
      Everybody has a say here. But it is up the the reader to agree or disagree. I agree whit you. :-)

      December 5, 2010 at 3:53 am

      • Simunye

        Keep us updated about your progress please, pro or can. We can learn from negative experiences too. :)

        December 5, 2010 at 3:55 am

    • Hi Sarah

      Perfectly reasonable question. I’m here because I want to warn people exactly like you what MMS is truly about. The fact is that MMS is a scam and is far more likely to damage your health than to help it. My motivation is that I don’t want to see people being tricked into poisoning themselves by fraudsters. That’s based on simple humanity. You’ll notice that I’m not recommending any specific treatment instead, so I have no personal financial interest either way.

      Now, I hear you ask, why should you believe me, when I’m just some random guy posting on the internet?

      And if that is what you’re asking, then that’s a very sensible attitude. The point is, I’m not asking you to believe me. I’m asking you to believe all the real, credible evidence that’s out there, and suggest you look into it so that you can make up your mind in an informed way.

      First, note that there is no published evidence whatsoever about the benefits of MMS. All the claims that it is beneficial come either from Jim Humble’s book or from websites such as this one. Bear in mind that some people make a lot of money out of selling MMS (and on the internet, it’s not always possible to tell who’s making money out of what), and so they are not necessarily impartial. MMS may be inexpensive, but given that the raw materials are ridiculously inexpensive, there is a very healthy profit margin for someone. See http://sites.google.com/site/mmsdebunked/home/jim-humble-claims/altruism for more information on this.

      There is not a single clinical study published in a peer-reviewed journal which shows any benefits for MMS.

      On the other hand, there is a great deal of reliable published evidence about the toxic effects of MMS. I’ve posted many links here before: if you haven’t done so already, go and read them.

      You might also want to have a look at the claims made for MMS and ask yourself if they seem credible. MMS sellers claim that it cures an enormous range of diseases which have nothing in common with each other, such as malaria, cancer, Crohn’s disease, asthma, and HIV. Really, how likely is that?

      Finally, if you’re still not sure after reading all this, I would strongly recommend that you discuss it with your own doctor. You’ll note that the MMS supporters never recommend that you do that, which should tell you something in itself.

      If you want improved overall health, by far the best thing you can do is to eat a balanced diet, take regular exercise, and don’t smoke.

      December 6, 2010 at 7:21 am

      • Sarah

        Hi Adam,
        I really appreciate your thoughtful reply. Thank you for taking the time.

        I find myself in a very interesting position in this discussion: I am a CMT and a certifield Holistic Life Coach who has yet to become entirely rabid against the AMA and all of Western Medicine. I have been well served in the past by medical doctors who wanted the very best for me.

        However I do believe that “the very best” that is offered by traditional Western medicine is often not enough, and many times actually harmful. Putting high doses of man-made chemicals into the human body when something else may have equal or greater benefits is not sensible.

        For example, I was chronically depressed since grade school – well over 30 years. In 2001 it got so severe that I finally gave up the fight and went on anti-depressants. I believe that saved my life. However anti-depressents don’t cure anything, they simply manage the symptoms. My system is so sensitive that if I missed my dose in the morning, by mid afternoon I was a mess (I know the lit says the meds accumulate and one can’t tell a difference for a week or two, but my experience was consistently different).

        In 2008 I chanced across a book called Energy Medicine, by Donna Eden. In it she teaches many exercises which balance the energy systems of the body. I started doing a quick 15 minute daily routine, and within two week I was 100% drug free, and have not needed to go back. Yes, I still have some very bad times. If I can become conscious enough in the midst of the sh** to do the exercises, my mood will level out almost immediately, no matter how deep I am.

        I believe that our bodies become so full of toxins simply from living in this modern world that we begin to have all sorts of symptoms and disease. It is conterintuitive to believe that adding more toxins to an already toxic system will improve the situation over the long term. I also believe that if a body could successfully detox, many (if not all) presenting symptoms would quite naturally disappear.

        (Of course that brings us to the question of whether MMS is simply another toxin that contributes to the problem, but I’d like to hold off on that for another moment.)

        This is how one detoxing agent could conceivably “cure” such a wide variety of ailments: as the body detoxes, it becomes increasingly able to heal itself. The closer the body is to a clean state, the more it is able to heal. If I no longer have a build up of toxins in my joints, arthritis will heal. If, at the same time, my gut is getting healthier, my crohns disease will heal. And if my body is free from the need to keep battling those diseases, then maybe, just maybe, it will have gained the overall health to be able to cure cancer.

        Is MMS the detoxer or another toxin? I don’t know. I heard about it from one of my teachers who had just the week before started using it. His wife had no discernable response, while he passed worms. I do not need a toxicology report to believe a man I know and respect. On his word, I’m trying it (and just to be clear, he is not selling it). So is my sister.

        I’ll keep you posted.

        December 6, 2010 at 9:14 am

      • Hi Sarah

        It’s perfectly true that modern medicine can’t cure everything. I’d far rather live in the 21st century with all the drugs we have now than in the middle ages when we didn’t have those drugs and average life expectancy was 30-something, but we still have a long way to go.

        However, just because modern medicine isn’t perfect, it doesn’t necessarily follow that something that isn’t based on modern medicine is perfect, which is an argument that the MMS-sellers seem to make. It’s known as the “Nirvana fallacy”.

        Now, as for toxins, there is a huge myth around the concept of “detoxing”. There’s an article about it here:

        http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7808348.stm

        and there’s plenty more like it if you Google “detox myth”. The fact is that even if we do consume chemicals that aren’t good for us, our liver and kidneys do a pretty good job of getting rid of them without any help. There is no evidence that any so-called detoxing product actually gets rid of anything harmful.

        You’re right, of course, about many diseases being by-products of the modern world. But that has very little to do with toxins. It has far more to do with eating an unhealthy diet and not getting enough exercise.

        When presented with a concept such as detoxing, it’s always worth asking “what is the evidence?” In the case of detox, the answer is none. Certainly, in the case of MMS, there is no evidence whatsoever that it gets rid of any toxins.

        December 6, 2010 at 10:13 am

      • Please do Sarah!

        As for chlorine dioxide (aka “MMS”) being a toxin, I believe that is a relative term. To the extent that intake amounts help facilitate the restoration of balance and all that the term implies, chlorine dioxide is not a toxin. It readily breaks down on its own, either via oxidation or degradation. Salt is a toxin if our intake is such to take the body out of balance. That’s why we can’t drink much salt water (I actually was suspicious of that notion before moving to California. i drank some seawater just to see for myself). Yet, we can’t live without the minerals that it contains.

        Even though chlorine dioxide is not a nutrient, it is delivering something that a chronically polluted body needs at that time; i.e., oxygen. An environment that is chronically oxygen deficient is not going to be a healthy one. Yet, it breaks down into harmless elements of salt (NaCl) and water (H2O). It is not stored in tissue to become part of a polluted biosphere.

        With the nullification of stored toxins — i.e., unmetabolized chemicals and other elements — the body has energy available to continue with the sustaining or restoration of health.

        Regards,

        Adam…

        December 6, 2010 at 10:30 am

      • Simunye

        IT cure ASTHMA! I know, because it cured mine Sarah, after being on medication for years. This medication just made it bearable, and it was expensive. MMS cured me in 2 days!
        I’m NOT a seller, liar or any other abusive names I have been called by Adam and his chummy’s, for telling my experience. :-)

        December 6, 2010 at 9:51 am

      • Sarah

        Ok Adam, I know you can do better than that. We’re having a serious discussion here, and you link me to “we investigated claims for detoxing in body brushes, shampoo and face wash….” Will you please do me a favor? I know I could do this research on my own, but contrary to appearances of the last two days, I really don’t spend all day in front of the computer. You’ve clearly done some homework on this topic, so will you give me links to real research concerning detox?

        Thanks.

        December 6, 2010 at 10:54 am

      • Sarah

        Actually, that request is for both Adams. Mr. Phaelosopher, do you have links to research concerning detoxing that are not MMS sites? And Adam 2, what have you got that supports your view that benefits of detoxing are (if I understand your postition correctly) mere myth?

        I’m looking for something of substance. I already have some knowledge about this topic.

        Adam 2, this is the first time I’ve heard someone wanting to “debunk” the whole concept of detoxing. I’m fascinated….

        December 6, 2010 at 11:02 am

      • Here have been a number of tests, by a variety of agencies on chlorine dioxide, none of them with the idea of using it therapeutically in the way that MMS is used today.

        Long before MMS was a gleam in Jim Humble’s eye, a 1982 study by the National Institutes for Health looked into the safety of chlorine dioxide for human use and found it safe.

        http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1569027/pdf/envhper00463-0059.pdf

        An EPA site that listed a paper on chlorine dioxide on 8/31/2010, has taken the paper down. However, here is a quote:

        4.1 Chlorine Dioxide Chemistry: Chlorine dioxide functions as a highly selective oxidant due to its unique, one-electron transfer mechanism where it is reduced to chlorite (ClO2-) (Hoehn et al., 1996). 4.4 – Chlorine dioxide is a strong oxidant and disinfectant. Its disinfecting mechanisms are not well understood, but appear to vary by the type of microorganism. 4.4.1 – In the first disinfection mechanism, chlorine dioxide reacts readily with amino acids cysteine, tryptophan, and tyrosine, but not with viral ribonucleic acid (RNA) (Noss etal., 1983; Olivier et al., 1985) It was concluded that chlorine dioxide inactivated viruses by altering the viral capsid proteins.

        A Dutch company, Lenntech, has some general information on chlorine dioxide:

        http://www.lenntech.com/processes/disinfection/chemical/disinfectants-chlorine-dioxide.htm

        The amounts that their systems generate are far in excess of MMS, however, the basic principles of chlorine dioxide and its behavior are clearly stated.

        Another study on chlorine dioxide use in meat processing, relative to reducing the amount of E. Coli and Salmonella when pigs are slaughtered, was conducted by the U.S.D.A. in 2001. The link below, from the Canadian Ministry of Agriculture, Food, and Rural Affairs, describes the 150-fold decrease in bacteria after administering sodium chlorate tablets. It also describes the enzyme, respiratory nitrate reductase, which governs the electron transfer function, which was one of the bones of contention by MMS naysayers against its “selectivity.” The enzyme happens to reside in Salmonella and E. Coli, and most likely, other anaerobic microorganisms, but not in aerobic bacteria, which coincidentally, are not impacted by MMS.

        http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/livestock/swine/facts/info_qs_treatsal.htm

        Another document that was helpful is from the EPA Guidance Manual, Chapter 4: Alternative Disinfectants and Oxidants” The manual offers guidance for water treatment. Again, it’s not looking at the concentrations and considerations that would be involved with using MMS on a personal scale, but the 41-page chapter gives a great account of chlorine dioxide, an sites numerous research findings on its efficacy.

        http://www.epa.gov/ogwdw/mdbp/pdf/alter/chapt_4.pdf

        Happy researching!

        Adam…

        December 6, 2010 at 12:25 pm

      • Well, the whole point is that there isn’t any real research concerning detox, because it’s not a real scientific phenomenon. So, no, I can’t point you to any real research. And here’s the thing: neither can anyone who is saying that MMS or any other supposed detox method actually does what they claim it to do. What I suggest is that if someone tells you they have a “detox” method, you ask them which specific toxins they get rid of, and what is the evidence that they do. If they can’t answer those questions, then their method is probably worthless.

        The best I can come up with is an editorial from The Lancet Infectious Diseases. Sadly, the article is behind a paywall, but you can get a little flavour of it from the few sentences they let you read for free.

        http://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(05)70094-3/fulltext

        December 6, 2010 at 11:22 am

      • “a 1982 study by the National Institutes for Health looked into the safety of chlorine dioxide for human use and found it safe.”

        They found it safe at well defined, very low doses, when taken for no more than 2 weeks.

        What dose is typically taken when MMS is used as directed? What are the toxic effects when it is used long-term?

        Just because something is safe for short-term use at low doses does not mean that it’s safe at higher doses or for prolonged periods of time.

        December 7, 2010 at 3:20 am

      • Just because something is safe for short-term use at low doses does not mean that it’s safe at higher doses or for prolonged periods of time.

        You are right. I agree.

        Is your thinking so rigid that you can’t or won’t acknowledge the power of dosing variability? The human body does it all the time.

        We have the present appalling phenomenon of chronic and degenerative disease because of the “one size fits all” philosophy practiced by various institutions… in agriculture, which uses pesticides, or self-applied pesticides (GMO), to grow proprietary food, chlorinated and fluoridated water treatment methods that silently and steadily contribute to imbalance, and then chemical-based medical practices that take the effects of the first two practices, to another, oftentimes lower level. Chronic and degenerative conditions are on the rise, and this multifaceted practice is a major cause. It is substantiated, it is fact. Yet, you “argue” against something that someone has discovered appears to help reverse this condition, on the flimsy excuse that it hasn’t been peer reviewed or published.

        Your blind obedience to rigid convention will endear you to a few, or at least get your bills paid, but at the expense of connection to the most important and powerful part of you… your heart.

        December 7, 2010 at 6:01 am

      • “It is substantiated, it is fact. ”

        What is substantiated? That chronic degenerative diseases are on the rise (yes, I think you’re probably right about that) or that chlorinated and fluoridated water supplies and modern medicines are to blame for the rise? If the latter, do you have evidence?

        Or do we need to agree to differ about the meaning of the word “substantiated” again?

        December 7, 2010 at 6:24 am

      • Rhedda

        Adam2

        BUT all the readers will notice something about your posts:

        +++”…The fact is that MMS is a scam and is far more likely to damage your health than to help it…”

        that is no fact. Only fact is that this is a blanket statement which insultingly ignore much personal observations…and yes. personal observations, cautious anecdotal evidence, IS valuable here. Again to remind you that people in hear are not idiots (I assume this from the amount of intelligent debate that I have observed, DEA’s hostile responses to you not withstanding) and so for you to accuse people of tricks and fraud causes the air of your benevolence to wane. Maybe you are benevolent in intent although I doubt it.

        What about all the FDA’s safety findings for crap that was 20 years down the road to have been found to be harmful? I am curious to your stance on GMO’s?

        Just because something gets approved and some badge agency comes out to say something is safe does NOT make it so.
        You talk about scam. Tell me, are you of the opinion that drug or food companies do not lie to people?

        +++”…You’ll notice that I’m not recommending any specific treatment instead, so I have no personal financial interest either way…”

        Well, pardon me for saying so but it is possible that you work for an agency like FDA in which case you profit from being a antagonist for them no? Also, to comment on your “simple humanity”, since you put so much stock into the established medical science community and their rigorous tests why don’t you recommend any general alternative treatments ( like chemotherapy for example) ?

        I’m just sayin’

        +++”…First, note that there is no published evidence whatsoever about the benefits of MMS….”

        Noted. And the reader will also notice that there is no published evidences of many useful alternative therapies and that the FDA will always have their standard disclaimer printed on many products:

        *these statements have not been evaluated by the FDA. This product is not intended to cure, treat………etc.

        Have you ever asked the question like “when the hell they are going to start evaluating claims???” I personally have seen products which have been out for decades which still have this damned disclaimer which tells me after a while that their is often no interest to evaluate these items anyhow and it would seem that they would therefore just as soon relegate many items to banishment from the public for no other reason but to protect a status quo of back scratching. But if they the FDA are, as many suspect, in cahoots with big pharma then it is intuitively obvious what there MO is for NOT evaluating many of these therapies. Now on the other hand I am not suggesting that studies and regulation are evil in of themselves, not at all and, if I may speak for many in here, neither do I suspect that other members of this forum are saying that.

        “…I don’t want to see people being tricked into poisoning themselves by fraudsters…”

        But I see irony in that you accuse Jim and MMS distributers of being frauds when there is good reason to believe that there has been some BIG SCAMS AND FRAUDS PERPETRATED BY THE FDA AND BIG PHARMA TO MAKE MEGA PROFITS off of vunerable people. Viiox, Zocor, Zolof- I forget the name of the one that has the cute bouncing bubble who is depressed and takes (Zolof?) because the commercial claims that “chemical imbalance” causes depression.

        LOL! Only a gullible fool would be duped by such advertisement.

        Are we to buy it because they can whip out some documents that say this or that, that the observational EVIDENCE we see on a personal level, that Uncle Fred is not so too chipper nowadays because he is a deep thinker and takes on alot of the woes of this world on his shoulder, and THAT is what ails him. The world is a terrible place. As George Carlin said: “war, famine, disease, hunger, crime… and the Icecapades ;-)…” is ENOUGH to melt or at least interrupt the quite peacefulness of the mind of many. Now remember you will find no such FDA disclaimer on that over the counter anti-depressant product even though clearly it is a deceptive description of depression and it’s root cause.

        Yeah, we are expected to believe that a physiological malady causes depression. forget any external elements. And these are the same companies that by your standards have passed acceptable scrutiny by the standards of clinical testing and peer review.
        Not buying

        “…there is a great deal of reliable published evidence about the toxic effects of MMS…”

        No. There are sources for published evidences containing toxicological reports which express findings through quantitaive analysis of Chlorine Dioxide, quantities which, as we know, are at levels far above that which is prescribed for taking MMS

        “…You might also want to have a look at the claims made for MMS and ask yourself if they seem credible. MMS sellers claim that it cures an enormous range of diseases which have nothing in common with each other, such as malaria, cancer, Crohn’s disease, asthma, and HIV.”

        watch the slant. it’s not only “MMS sellers claim”. Again your perspective here dismisses the claims by the users who have benefitted

        “…If you want improved overall health, by far the best thing you can do is to eat a balanced diet, take regular exercise, and don’t smoke.”

        true statement there Adam. I would just add sunshine to that list.

        One thing I will say for what it is worth is that for those who accuse you of being so angry, I don’t see that really, no more than someone who becomes angered over any perceived injustice. Your language is aggressive but to me not offensive.

        curious if you would tell me how you first heard of and learned of MMS?

        December 7, 2010 at 10:04 am

  17. Gilgamesh

    Adam
    Maybe include Metatronic healing also. Metatron, the ruler of the tree of life.
    You can read about it in the latest Caduceus magazine.

    December 1, 2010 at 10:06 am

  18. Gilgamesh

    Hi Adam.
    In my opinion the truth, is truth. And most drugs just treat the symptoms,and many times make people sicker, and hardly cure any health problems.People take prescription drugs for many years, and their condition just getting worse,but many times they start trans dermal magnesium oil therapy, and in a few weeks they are better, or completely cured.
    Trans dermal magnesium oil therapy helps and cures hundreds of diseases, but how many doctors you know that prescribe it to their patients? Most of them will just prescribe drugs, because that is only what they know.
    However millions of people using now magnesium oil, and throwing away
    the drugs, and thanking Phaelosopher for writing a book on magnesium oil, and save their health, and lives.

    November 30, 2010 at 4:46 pm

    • I would ask you to provide references for your magic magnesium therapy, but I think I know what the answer is going to be.

      Just one question though: why do we need MMS if magic magnesium therapy already cures so many diseases?

      December 1, 2010 at 1:31 am

      • Gilgamesh

        Adam
        Magnesium deficiency is connected to a lot of health problems.

        December 1, 2010 at 4:18 am

      • Gilgamesh

        Adam
        MMS kills pathogens.

        December 1, 2010 at 4:47 am

      • Right, so magic magnesium therapy cures about half of the diseases known to mankind, and MMS cures the other half?

        How very neat it must be living in your fantasy world.

        December 1, 2010 at 5:37 am

      • Sarah

        As MMS is being presented as a detox agent, it (theoretically)facilitates healing as a body becomes clear of poisons. However, as as detox agent it does NOT supply the body with additional resources for healing, such as proper nutrients. Therefore supplements that restore necessary vitamins and minerals are vital in allowing the body to heal.

        But I think you knew that, yes?

        December 6, 2010 at 9:41 am

      • Simunye

        MMS does NOT heal, as I understand it.
        It takes care of the pathogens and all other ‘creepy-crawleys’ that should bot be in our body’s. Therefore gives the body a chance to cure it self. :-)

        December 6, 2010 at 9:56 am

  19. Phaelosopher, perhaps you missed my question below as it kind of got hijacked by a bunch of people claiming that aspartame is another big pharma conspiracy, but let me repeat:

    All these substances you say accumulate in the body but can be “detoxed” by MMS: What is your evidence that

    a) they accumulate in the human body
    b) they are removed by MMS?

    I’m guessing “none whatsoever”, right?

    November 30, 2010 at 1:14 am

    • Adam,

      I didn’t miss your question. You insist on not using any of your own common sense and ability to reason, which would show a modicum of common ground. It is not “my” evidence that unmetabolized substances accumulate in the ground, anyone with the ability and willingness to read a tox screen, hair analysis, water analysis, and who knows what other types of diagnostic methods, can tell you that “sick” people tend to have high levels of inorganic materials in their body, and low levels of materials needed to restore balance and repair.

      There’s no need for me to provide you with “evidence” that you can satisfy on your own effort. The only “references” you provide are to data that does not speak to either the application, or range of concentrations of chlorine dioxide that are covered via MMS.

      So your “question,” while correct in sentence structure, is disingenuous.

      November 30, 2010 at 6:09 am

      • As I thought, no evidence. But never mind. You don’t need to convince me. You have may followers who will believe what you write even if you don’t provide any evidence for it.

        November 30, 2010 at 6:42 am

  20. dea

    go away and come back under a different identity,
    ok adam?

    oh, and bring some referencces…

    muhahahahahahahhh!!!!!!!!!!!!

    November 29, 2010 at 8:13 pm

    • I’ve supplied plenty of references. But just to remind you, here are some:

      http://www.fda.gov/Safety/MedWatch/SafetyInformation/SafetyAlertsforHumanMedicalProducts/ucm220756.htm

      http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npg/npgd0116.html

      http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/ToxProfiles/tp.asp?id=582&tid=108

      Now, your turn. Why don’t you provide references for your crazy assertions that MMS has any benefits. Could it be because there aren’t any?

      November 30, 2010 at 1:00 am

      • those websites have been exposed as compleatly pro big pharma,which means they may be considered as compleatly false and considered pharma propaganda.

        especially the CDC!!

        next time give us some REAL references.

        watzamatter agent adam>you worried that you may not make the NWO mass cull of the populaton?

        December 5, 2010 at 8:14 pm

      • “those websites have been exposed as compleatly pro big pharma”

        You mean “I’m part of a whacky conspiracy theory cult who believe that governments all around the world and big pharma are part of a giant global conspiracy”.

        Those articles give plenty of links to a wide variety of articles in peer-reviewed journals. Are you also claiming that the entire medical publishing industry is also in on the conspiracy?

        December 6, 2010 at 7:25 am

    • dea, I have posted some references, but they have gone of into a moderation queue, no doubt because of the number of hyperlinks in that post. You’ll have to bear with me until Phaelosopher gets round to approving it, although he’s usually reasonably efficient about such things.

      November 30, 2010 at 1:15 am

  21. dea

    adam is big pharma shill

    November 28, 2010 at 4:36 pm

    • In other words, dea, you have no rational arguments whatsoever against what I’m saying, so you resort to name-calling. Nice.

      Anyway, just to recap, MMS is an INDUSTRIAL BLEACH. The idea that you should drink it as a miracle health cure has to be one of the most deluded ideas I’ve ever heard.

      Drink MMS if you wish, but don’t complain you weren’t warned when it does you serious damage.

      November 29, 2010 at 2:10 am

      • dea

        to recap,
        MMS is NOT an industrial bleach
        .come on shilladam…..this must be the carrot.what about the stick.
        dont they teach you better how to devide and conquer?
        your tactics follow a predictable pattern,
        you guys are,for the most part,cookie cutter clones.

        i bet you have a bottle of mms on your shelf right now,
        dont you?

        November 29, 2010 at 7:42 pm

      • Which bit do you not understand? Do you not understand that MMS, when mixed as directed, produces chlorine dioxide?

        Or do you not understand that chlorine dioxide is an industrial bleach?

        November 30, 2010 at 12:56 am

      • Sarah

        Isn’t chlorine (as opposed to chlorine dioxide) an industrial bleach? And don’t most of Americans drink it in our tap water, swim in it in our pools, shower and bathe in it and breathe it in via steam? We do that because it is supposed to protect us from all sorts of bacteria and infectious illnesses. If MMS is, in fact, industrial bleach, how is drinking it any worse than drinking regular chlorine?

        December 4, 2010 at 9:19 pm

      • adam,and adams apple IS a paid liar for anti humanity interests,
        dont listen to him-her.

        or believe the opposite of what it says.

        December 5, 2010 at 8:17 pm

      • Sarah, the difference is the amount that you drink. There is more than one kind of bleach. Chlorine and chlorine dioxide are both bleaches.

        The big difference with chlorine used for water purification is that the amount of bleach that you consume is absolutely tiny. You are ingesting considerably more bleach if you take MMS as directed.

        December 6, 2010 at 7:27 am

    • Simunye

      You right Dea :-) , MMS helps against BRAINWASHING too, because 99.99% of people who initially fear to take MMS but take it anywhere, are CURED of this dis-ease of brainwashing, because they start thinking for them-self again. ;)

      November 30, 2010 at 12:35 am

      • the bottom dwelling entity known as adam adam apple ,will continue its lies since being a whore for anti humanity forces it must lie in order to get paid.
        remember it isnt interested in the truth,just money and power.
        it is an antisocial personality disorderd creature.(not an empethic human being.

        i have faith that its type is not long for this earth.

        December 5, 2010 at 8:26 pm

      • I repeat:

        “In other words, dea, you have no rational arguments whatsoever against what I’m saying, so you resort to name-calling. Nice.”

        December 6, 2010 at 8:24 am

  22. Oh and as far as aspertame goes, there are aspartame reporting sites. Many thousands have reported neurological issues after consuming this chemical. Many have “cured” their neurological condition after stopping the intake of this dangerous chemical… I being one of them. It almost gave me a nervous breakdown. Fortuantely I did not required a huge amount of work to get it out of my system as some people do.

    It astounds me that people think that taking chemicals like this over long periods of time will have no effect. Even with MMS I recommend judicious usage as in fact, the verdict is still out for long term usage in my opinion. As to why someone would use it long term is beyond me though. Do the job and when its done its done. The consequences minimal if any for short term usage, up to several months. With antibiotics it could be your death sentence…. I have seen far too many people die from the use of antibiotics… their infections left uncured and incurable…. not to mention the gut dyscrasias that they cause. MMS can cure crohns and irritable bowel disese as part of a systematic protocol that includes removing pathogens as well as restoring noramal floras and creating a sustainable living diet.

    November 28, 2010 at 11:07 am

    • Simunye

      Arrow
      I also do not religiously use MMS every day but rather when I feel there is an issue that needs attention and sometimes for detox. i see no need to use it just for the fun of it. :-)

      November 28, 2010 at 11:34 am

    • “MMS can cure crohns and irritable bowel disese”

      No, it can’t. If you think it can, why don’t you provide evidence?

      November 28, 2010 at 11:44 am

      • Adam,

        Why don’t you use your wealth of knowledge that earned you a PhD and tell us why MMS would not be helpful in addressing Crohn’s and IBS, and not simply rest on “no it can’t.” You also ask for evidence, which is not really necessary. Let’s simply go on hypothesis. Scientific breakthroughs begin with the hypothesis that something is possible, not impossible. Either you back up your certitude as to why you think it’s not possible to arrest these conditions with MMS with some of your own thoughts that we can look at, or let it rest.

        November 28, 2010 at 1:26 pm

      • dea

        shut up adam.

        November 28, 2010 at 4:32 pm

      • So you are saying that if you come up with a totally whacky hypothesis, then it’s up to others to disprove it?

        Sorry, but that’s not how science works. If YOU come up with an implausible-sounding hypothesis, then it’s up to YOU to provide evidence for it.

        Otherwise, I might as well come up with the theory that aspartame makes your penis grow longer, and you would have no reason to doubt me.

        November 29, 2010 at 1:55 am

      • I have a friend who is living proof. It is also bscoming a treatment favored by crohns people who seek alternative treatment before conventional medicine and their quack doctors kill them.

        MMS and Low Dose Naltrexone work very well.
        My friend got rid of all his crohn’s symptoms before he even started LDN.

        November 29, 2010 at 3:10 pm

      • dea

        yes it can cure crohns,and irritable bowel.my sister had BOTH compleatly cured,FAST,BY MMS.

        poor deluded big pharma paid disinformist(liar),”adam shill”.

        November 29, 2010 at 7:47 pm

      • Those sound like amazing stories. You should write them up as case reports for a medical journal. They would be extremely highly cited papers and provide great evidence for the benefits of MMS.

        That is, if they have a word of truth in them.

        November 30, 2010 at 12:58 am

  23. I beleive that I read that some doctors are finding that MMS reduces heavy metals in the body though before and after hair analysis, the standard diagnositc method for determining heavy metal loads in the body. I consider that proof enough. Metals before MMS, metals gone after MMS.

    November 28, 2010 at 11:00 am

    • References?

      November 28, 2010 at 11:43 am

      • dea

        whistle blowers at high levels have testified that these peer reviewed journals have been receiving FAKE studies,on aspartame and 29 other major drugs.the lancet has been publishing FAKE studies for at least 20 years(www.naturalnews.com).
        peer review doesnt mean a thing and ,in fact,is quite dangerous when you have brainwashed junk scientist idiots(like you adam),peer reviewing.
        why dont you go away and come back under a different name,using the same devide and conquer,tactics as outlined in the book rules for radicals and the belief system of totalitarianism called synergy used by hitler,stalin etc.

        November 28, 2010 at 4:45 pm

      • Gosh dea, let’s see if I have this right: you are claiming that the ENTIRE peer-reviewed literature on aspartame has been faked?

        Is that really what you think?

        (BTW: Godwin fail!)

        November 29, 2010 at 2:03 am

    • I met and interviewed a woman who once had breast cancer, and hair analysis indicated high levels of heavy metal toxicity. Months and “old school” MMS later, her heavy metal levels were negligent (confirmed by a second hair analysis), and she IS cancer free.

      November 28, 2010 at 1:29 pm

      • And this is all reliably documented in a published source, is it?

        November 29, 2010 at 1:51 am

      • How can anyone ever trust pharamceutical based journals.

        Those that believed them used vioxx and bextra and killed their patients.. they have no credibilty. Vioxx and Bextra are just two of few deadly drugs they have promoted time and again. Thousands and thousands have died needlessly though their lies, false information and lack of reliable studies.

        You can take those peer reviewed journals and stick them where the sun don’t shine… they were created in darkness after all.

        November 29, 2010 at 3:03 pm

      • And how do you think we found out that Vioxx was harmful and it got taken off the market? That’s because of proper scientific studies, published in peer reviewed journals.

        If it weren’t for scientific studies, no-one would ever have looked to see if Vioxx was causing rare by serious adverse events. I can guarantee you that Jim Humble isn’t doing similar studies with MMS, as he clearly doesn’t care whether it kills anyone.

        November 30, 2010 at 1:03 am

      • Simunye

        Quote: And how do you think we found out that Vioxx was harmful and it got taken off the market? That’s because of proper scientific studies, published in peer reviewed journals.

        Because they got to may complaints about to many side-effects from users! That is how dangerous scientifically-proven, peer reviewed drugs get taken of the market! ;)

        December 6, 2010 at 1:51 am

      • Paul Morgan

        Simunye/Monika – You state “mms works, no matter what”, but you are yet to provide any evidence for this, despite being asked time and time again. Your lack of understanding of basic chemistry, human anatomy, physiology, biochemistry, microbiology, pharmacology and the clinical trials process is plain to see. Your opinion and “experiences” are worthless without credible evidence to back them up. I haven’t posted here for a long time, yet it still seems that you continue posting comments which are designed to bait me and which suggest that you are now so obsessed with the MMS scam that you can’t see the truth about it’s toxicity which is staring you in the face. Please feel free to continue drinking MMS – it’s your choice. Don’t promote it, however, without evidence of safety and efficacy if you don’t want to have your views on MMS questioned intensely. Your actions on Facebook and your own blog suggest that you either don’t want your opinions questioned or cannot handle the debate that stems from your opinions being questioned. I suggest that this is because you have no rational basis for your opinions and no evidence.
        “UNIVERSAL LAW” – ha,ha,ha!
        You refer to people questioning you as ill-mannered. Sorry, the way I see it is that your continued refusal to answer a straight question with a simple yes or no that is ill-mannered. Have you considered a career in politics?
        It is the lack of any evidence from properly-conducted clinical trials that is the reason that doctors (a few notorious individuals excepted) do not recommend or prescribe MMS. It is the clear evidence of the toxicity of sodium chlorite and chlorine dioxide that highlights the risks of MMS ingestion.
        The irony in the title of this section of the blog also seems to be lost on all the MMS advocates here – MMS Is a CHEMICAL. As for the vitriol, absolute rubbish and nonsense spouted by a number of posters to the blog, it makes you despair for the sanity of the human race. Fortunately, they are not representative of the overwhelming majority of people in the world, where sanity, rationality and plain common sense still guides them.

        December 6, 2010 at 1:15 pm

  24. Gilgamesh

    Adam just want to shove down on people’s throats, that MMS is not effective, and dangerous. It looks like he knows nothing about MMS.
    But he thinks aspartame is good for us.
    And I was just thinking; What is wrong with this guy?

    November 28, 2010 at 7:42 am

    • Simunye

      Maybe he is unsure and just wants us to contradict him till he can believe it too. ;)

      November 28, 2010 at 8:12 am

    • Gilgamesh, I’m not claiming that aspartame is good for you, just that it isn’t bad for you.

      If you think that aspartame does any harm, perhaps you could provide some evidence? Or do you believe it to be bad for you simply because it’s your default position to believe in any whacky conspiracy theory without bothering to look at the evidence?

      November 28, 2010 at 8:21 am

      • Gilgamesh

        Adam
        When aspartame came on the market, I made sure, that everything I bought, had aspartame in it,I thought it was really a good thing.But just after a very sort time, I felt aspartame was
        not exactly right with my system, and avoided aspartame after that, and this was long before it became a conspiracy theory.
        And it looks like it is your default position to believe any whacky scientific method, that was peer reviewed in some whacky scientific journal.

        November 28, 2010 at 9:42 am

      • So, you don’t have any evidence that aspartame is harmful, you just “felt it was not exactly right with your system”.

        On the other hand, there are huge amounts of peer-reviewed literature, in journals which are not remotely whacky, showing aspartame is safe.

        Now, whom to believe? Hm…

        November 28, 2010 at 9:59 am

      • Simunye

        Gilgamesh you know why they call it ‘peer-reviewed’?
        Because the AAMF’s ‘peers’ are ‘reviewing’ that their fans all sing from the same hymnbook! :-)

        November 28, 2010 at 10:02 am

      • dea

        ha,ha,ha
        more NEWSPEAK from shill “adam”.
        (orwells 1984)

        watch him now switch to insulting again.but at various levels of intensity.
        carrot and the stick.
        by the way.
        overwhelming scientific evidence that aspartame is dangerous.

        one pro aspartame “study”,showed that the lab that did the test never existed and the scientist was named after the shill researchers dog!!!

        fake faaaake.

        look up dr russell blaylock and dr betty martini on youtube for REAL science that aspartame is very bad.

        nice try ,shill adam.

        November 28, 2010 at 4:57 pm

      • OK, dea, if you think aspartame is dangerous, perhaps you could back up your claims with some evidence?

        November 29, 2010 at 1:50 am

      • dea

        adam is claiming that aspartame isnt bad for you….

        one moment please…………………..

        AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA-HOHOHOHO!!!

        references adam?

        November 29, 2010 at 7:52 pm

      • Magnuson BA, Burdock GA, Doull J, et al. (2007). “Aspartame: a safety evaluation based on current use levels, regulations, and toxicological and epidemiological studies”. Critical Reviews in Toxicology 37 (8): 629–727

        And there are plenty more where that came from. If you think aspartame is harmful, then why don’t you provide references?

        November 30, 2010 at 1:06 am

    • He’s probably been drinking too much diet soda!

      November 29, 2010 at 3:06 pm

      • dea

        hes also probably shaking with aspartame induced palsy.
        better get some wires stuck in your brain like mike j fox,adam,so you can continue to suck on big pharmas tit.

        dont worry shill adam,theyll gimp you out before they slowkill you.

        November 29, 2010 at 7:56 pm

      • It’s nice to see you are keeping the argument to such an intellectual level!

        November 30, 2010 at 1:07 am

    • You would think that Adam might get the idea that his opinions are not worth much here. He ought to go save the world elsewhere where his type of advice is appreciated, maybe in the nursing homes.

      November 29, 2010 at 3:12 pm

      • Simunye

        The nurses maybe appreciate his opinion, but not the dying aged, if they would know about MMS… ;)

        November 30, 2010 at 12:22 am

      • Once again, I see that the only argument you have against me is puerile name-calling.

        The bottom line is this:

        MMS is poisonous. I have provided references for this.

        You claim MMS has health benefits. You have provided no references for this, only unverifiable anecdotes and opinions.

        November 30, 2010 at 1:09 am

      • his assignment is to discredit mms and divert people back to dangerous drugs,so we can expect him-her-it to reappear under many names,using tactics he has been taught to divide and disillusion the readers of this website.
        remember,this is his JOB,and it is getting paid,so it has a lot of time to devote to his assignment.
        unless it had other targets in alt health?
        hmmmmm.

        December 5, 2010 at 9:06 pm

      • And that’s your attempt to show that your argument is base on more than name-calling, is it?

        December 6, 2010 at 7:40 am

  25. OK, well some of those things may be harmful in sufficient quantities, and some really aren’t. I find it amusing that you are still peddling the notion that aspartame is harmful. That’s just another whacky conspiracy theory, which has been thoroughly debunked. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspartame_controversy for a nice little write-up.

    But perhaps I shouldn’t be surprised you’re subscribing to whacky conspiracy theories: it seems to be the main argument in favour of MMS.

    Anyway, let’s say for the sake of argument that some of those substances are genuinely harmful (and one or two of them probably are). What is your evidence that

    a) they accumulate in the human body
    b) they are removed by MMS?

    I’m guessing “none whatsoever”, right?

    November 28, 2010 at 3:56 am

    • OMG, and here is the guy who wants references for everything going to wikipedia!

      This is laughable!

      November 29, 2010 at 3:14 pm

      • dea

        it doesnt take brains to be a big pharma hooker.
        just a weak mind,and a wide yellow streak down the back for all the hurt he is causing others with his lies.
        its pathetic,really.

        November 29, 2010 at 8:02 pm

      • Roland

        You do realize that the Wikipedia entry has a lot of references, right?

        Oh, let me guess. Those references, all of them, were written by evil big pharma shills.

        November 29, 2010 at 11:11 pm

    • dea

      “i find it amusing that you are peddling the notion that aspartame is harmful”.(BIG pharma sell-out prostitute adams quote)

      one moment please………………………….

      AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHOHOHOHOHOHOHO!!!!!!!

      i bet you have 2 bottles of mms on your shelf adam.
      dont you?

      November 29, 2010 at 8:00 pm

    • Roland

      These people have a dogma: “the evil pharmaceutical companies are out to kill us!”, and won’t accept any idea that goes against that dogma. It’s actually a religion for them.

      They will, however, accept without question any idea that supports their faith.

      It’s a wasted effort to try to talk some sense into these people.

      November 29, 2010 at 11:08 pm

      • Simunye

        You are right Roland, ones you have taken MMS and you are CURED of this dis-easy called BRAINWASHING, you can start thinking for yourself again.
        Your effort to brainwash us again IS a waste of time.
        Besides: religion is the opium of mankind. Opium is a drug, right! So what is wrong with drugs now! :)

        November 30, 2010 at 12:38 am

    • Yes, it does indeed seem that the answer is “none whatsoever”. The MMS apologists only seem to be able to call me names, and not to provide any evidence to back up their theories.

      November 30, 2010 at 1:11 am

  26. Simunye

    Thanks Adam 1

    … for this article, and thanks Adam 2 for being so persistent to ask for THOSE ANSWERS you surely did NOT want to hear. Now I know more than I have ask for!
    Lets see: I one day heard from a friend about MMS and used it successfully. Trying to share my experience, I encountered several ill mannered , some even disgusting individuals online trying their utmost best to shut me up, put words into my mouth I did not say, putting their own words into my mouth, make me look and even call me an idiot, fool, deluded, insane, deluded old twat, nut, quack ect…you name it…
    This intimidating behavior only resulted in me making a video, joining more websites to share my experience, which resulted in more insults added to injury!
    As an explanation why I have to put up with this sort of intimidation and bullying I have been advised by the DOCTOR (who was the first one to call me deluded, hence his followers must think he knows what he is talking about), that it is natural to get such response IF I HOLD ON TO FALSE BELIEVES.
    Well I was not one of the conspiracy-theory followers, till I had this eye opening experiences online.
    Now I’m grateful to those who explain to me (like you Adam!) WHY I was possibly sick in the first place!
    I have to digest this first, because it is a lot to take in for somebody who never doubted authority at such level before. Priests and Doctors I always respected until now, because they are in positions where we should be able to trust them. Well was I wrong!
    I’m absolutely shocked! :o
    I may add that I have decided the take my Archangel Raphaels-Cards advise and I quote:

    “Avoid naysayers and only listen to positive voices.”

    Those bullys can say about me what they want, because what ever they do to us WILL come back to them. THAT’S UNIVERSAL LAW!

    MMS WORKS – NO MATTER WHAT :-)

    November 28, 2010 at 1:42 am

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